Why do people assume that all Trump voters are deplorables? Don't they understand that some of them voted for Trump for business reasons?

Jacob Stai

Jacob Stai, cogito; ergo, mordax sum.

Répondu il y a 7w · L'auteur dispose de réponses 671 et de vues de réponses 363.5k

Look, I’m really sorry for having to speak this truth to you, but by definition, if you support a mobster, you’re part of the mob. If you actively support someone who wants to punish others, you actively support punishment of others. You can’t compartmentalize away some of a person’s beliefs when you choose to support them; you have to recognize up front that it’s possible that your actions will enable them to act on *all* of their beliefs, and if you don’t like all of that, then you have to take steps to counteract the parts you don’t like. The thing about people is that you can only embrace or reject them as they come, politicians included.

So, for example, when I voted for Hillary Clinton, I also donated to represent.us, because I was worried that a vote for Hillary Clinton might make corruption more prevalent in society, and I wanted to fight that proactively instead of just pretend there’s nothing I could do about some of her troubling connections.

Any Trump supporter who decided, for whatever reason, that they needed to vote for Trump despite not supporting persecution of gay people, or immigrants, or people of color, or women, or journalists, or any other of the many groups of people whom Trump has directly insulted, shut out of the political process, or used the power of High Office to directly persecute…

…any Trump supporters not comfortable with the entirety of what Trump believes needed to take steps to make sure that their opinion against persecution didn’t get lost in the Trumpian mix. Because of course they did. Blind trust would just be a particularly foolish form of apathy.

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But you know who it was who spoke out to their congresspeople against Trump’s depredations? Not conservatives. Liberals. You know who it was who’ve striven to put a check on this out-of-control President? Not conservatives. Liberals. You know who it was who upped their donation to causes supporting the people Trump put (and still puts) at risk? Not conservatives. Liberals.

The truth is, Trump supporters who disagree with Trump are far more apathetic about that disagreement than people who reject both the policies and the man. And I just don’t see that apathy as some kind of principled moral stance.

1. Partisanship and political engagement

This year’s typology identifies four Republican-oriented groups and four Democratic-oriented groups. In both coalitions, the most deeply partisan and ideological groups, Solid Liberals and Core Conservatives, also are the most likely to vote, to pay attention to politics and to be invested in the outcome of the 2018 congressional elections.

In addition to being the most likely to say they always or nearly always vote, these highly partisan ideological groups also donate money, contact elected officials and discuss politics with others at the highest rates. Far more Solid Liberals say they engage in these activities than do members of other typology groups, including Core Conservatives.

Trump backers get 'revenge gifts' from relatives: donations to liberal causes

(And as an aside, let me just mention how messed-up it is that some of these “liberal causes” are even partisan issues at all. I mean seriously, the Sierra Club? Literally the only way that can be partisan is if the party in question hates trees. The SPLC? Only haters gonna hate giving legal advice to at-risk communities. Same for the Immigration Legal Advocacy Project — law-and-order-in-immigration is in theory exactly what the Trumpite wants — but in practice, I’ve heard every single one of these organizations lambasted by Trump supporters as some kind of enemy or threat.)

Matthew Lee Myers

Matthew Lee Myers, a travaillé chez Web Development

Répondu il y a 7w · L'auteur dispose de réponses 359 et de vues de réponses 3.1m

Let’s cut right to the chase…

No one said all Trump voters are “deplorables”. Not even Hillary Clinton said that. Here’s what Hillary Clinton actually said, and I beg you to actually read it.

You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?

The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic — you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people — now how 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks, they are irredeemable. But thankfully they are not America.

But the other basket — and I know this because I see friends from all over America here — I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas — as well as, you know, New York and California — but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they’re just desperate for change. It doesn’t really even matter where it comes from. They don’t buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won’t wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroine, feel like they’re in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.

People who voted for Trump for “business reasons” had a choice. They knew full well that at least some of Trump’s supporters, and I won’t say half, but it was obviously a good portion of them, were legitimately bad people. Those good people supporting Trump could have banded together and said, “No we’re not deplorable, and we’re going to start getting rid of the bad eggs”. They could have said, “If Trump doesn’t stop playing footsy with the KKK and InfoWars, he’s going to lose my support”. They could have, at the very least, booed instead of chanted when Trump did something outrageous or racist. They could have said and done a lot of things. It would have cost them nothing to take a stand and push the party in a morally defensible direction. There were plenty of things they could have done to clean things up so that they could have cast their vote with a clean conscience.

But they didn’t. They turned a blind eye to it. They allowed the rot to spread. They decided it was worth allying themselves with truly awful people to get what they wanted. Some of them even bought “Deplorables” t-shirts and joined the club.

And, not to put too fine a point on it, if you’re willing to turn a blind eye to that kind of evil so that you can reap some sort of petty, insignificant little financial reward… well, that sounds a bit deplorable to me. Judas Iscariot sold out Jesus for thirty silver. Benedict Arnold betrayed George Washington for the promise of £20,000. People get robbed or murdered all the times over the contents of a wallet or a fancy gold watch.

Lots of people do deplorable things for “business reasons”.

Don’t be one of them.

Andrea Pargel

Andrea Pargel, I am an immigrant, and my country did send its best

Répondu il y a 7w · L'auteur dispose de réponses 277 et de vues de réponses 2.1m

I am a businesswoman. Personally, Trump’s policies do benefit me - particularly when it comes to paying less taxes. The stock market is soaring - so my nest egg is doing well too. If having a business is enough reason to be a Trump supporter I would be a perfect example of a beneficiary of his policies. Yet I disagree with Trump in pretty much everything.

Why? Well, I may be a business person, but I am also a human being. What good is having a business when you see that your employees are struggling to pay for healthcare? What good is having a business if you may fall ill and all that hard work goes to the drain thanks to medical and care-giving bills? What good is having a business if your business’ supplies and labor costs can increase overnight after the president writes a poorly advised tweet? What good is having a business when facing the existential threat to humanity that is climate change? What good is having a business in a country where societal divisions are becoming so steep that they affect the peace and well-being of your clients, staff and shareholders?

Trump’s policies are what we say in Spanish: “pan hoy, hambre para mañana” (bread today, hunger tomorrow).

The GOP passed a tax break without having a way to pay for it. They weakened the Affordable Care Act without proposing a sound replacement plan, raising my insurance costs about 20% and further reducing my choices of hospitals. They gave us a Secretary of Education whose policies will further segregate poorer students and keep people in debt. In the meanwhile, people like me, who got a tax break, will use most of that money for either: a) buying back stock, b) spending their money overseas, and c) internal spending; which we hope will magically result in enough tax revenue to pay for the tax break to begin with.

I am a centrist and I find a lot to criticize with both democrats and republicans. However, I am also an American, and having a president that systematically undermines American institutions; in particular its legal system (a system that despite its flaws is an example to the rest of the world), should worry us all, regardless of political affiliation: To that concern, I can definitely say, ‘Worried I am.’

Joyce Frankel

Joyce Frankel, Opinionated Democrat that is interested in the political atmosphere of the U.S.

Répondu il y a 10w · L'auteur dispose de réponses 912 et de vues de réponses 3.9m

I get that many voted for Trump for business reasons.

I’m sure y’all enjoy the tax cut… even though your employees have to pay for it. Those promises of adding jobs that y’all didn’t intend to add, just wanted to pocket the money.

Corporate Tax Cuts Don’t Create Jobs, They Enrich CEOs

Corporate America Celebrated Tax Cuts by Laying Off Workers

Nothing deplorable about that. Clearly I misunderstood.

I get that it’s just business to rip apart EPA guidelines so you don’t have to do things to protect the health of others… so that you can save a few bucks.

I Ran George W. Bush’s EPA—and Trump’s Cuts to the Agency Would Endanger Lives

Five Ways the EPA Budget Cuts Will Impact All Americans - SAVE THE US EPA

Nothing deplorable about that.

How about those businesses that are making bank from separating children from their parents at the border… I mean… it’s just business after all.

The Billion-Dollar Business of Operating Shelters for Migrant Children

My apologies… I did view that as deplorable. Thanks for explaining it’s just business.

Perhaps you see the actions of the Trump administration as just doing business?

I guess Betsy DeVos dismantling public education must be good for business, eh?

Education Department Unwinds Unit Investigating Fraud at For-Profits

DeVos Education Dept. Begins Dismissing Civil Rights Cases in Name of Efficiency

DeVos defies White House in dismantling Education budget office

It was worth it though, clearly, to make a few bucks to see the reputation of the United States in tatters globally… I know that has to help the bottom line.

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/w...

How about those Tariffs? I mean really… so much winning.

Great for business… especially if you’re a farmer, right?

Despite Billions in Relief Payments, American Farmers Are Still Hurting From Trump's Tariffs

So… you get your tax cuts. You get your regulations relaxed so you don’t have to take care of the environment. Sure… you’re saving money.

Except, sales may decline, because what you overlooked is that putting your tax cut on consumers to pick up the tab for… they have less money to spend. Always a bit of a bummer for business.

Those EPA regulations… how long before you notice an increase in employee illness? Those calling in because they have a “bug” or become ill for environmental reasons is a real thing. But then… they can always just go to the doctor… oh wait… they can’t. Insurance premiums are already up 20% just this last year…

Here’s how Trump’s tax law is raising health insurance premiums

Trump administration freezes payments required by Affordable Care Act, health care premiums could rise

Ultimately, as long as you see a profit… it doesn’t matter what is going on. Even if this POTUS is being controlled by Putin… what the hell… you made money.

I’ll tell you what’s deplorable… seeing what this administration is doing, and not caring as long as you make a profit. That to me… is the definition of a true deplorable.

Maggie Dine-Jergens

Maggie Dine-Jergens

Répondu il y a 9w · L'auteur dispose de réponses 82 et de vues de réponses 58.6k

Using “business reasons” as the justification of a vote for Trump makes no sense…

Warren Buffett and Steve Jobs are both self-made millionaires with no string of bankruptcies, lawsuits, scandals, abuse of eminent domain or have $Billions in debt or books about using deceit as a business tool.

By contrast, Hugh Hefner is a self-made millionaire, but made his money in what some might consider a sleazy-type of business.

Consider those two comparisons and then ponder Donald Trump: Trump isn’t a self-made millionaire, because he used $41M and a full business set-up from his Pa, and he is notorious for using planned bankruptcies to draw cash flow and then abandon the project, leaving small contractors and employees unpaid. Trump’s book boasts of use of deceit and bribing politicians to get illegal use of eminent domain. Trump has over 4000 lawsuits against him. Trump owes $Billions in debt to all of Wall Street and to George Soros’ bank and to foreign entities, plus personal debt to Soros and others.

Saying that one should vote for Trump for “business reasons” implies that any millionaire can be President…and perhaps that is true. BUT, what if we apply some standards, besides having gold-plated toilets? Would you vote for Hugh Hefner, who has no lawsuits against him and, compared to Trump, is scandal-free and does not have $Billions in debt owed to all of Wall St and foreign entities….or would you choose someone who is actually a self-made millionaire with no bankruptcies, scandals, excessive debt and lawsuits?

Then, there is the subject of policy….Trump had virtually no policies until he was pressed to do so quite late in the game. Even after stating some policy, he often reneged on prior statements. Trump is a lifelong Democrat with considerable tax issues. (No, every rich guy isn’t the subject of constant IRS audits. In fact, most do not get audited routinely, as Trump does.). Throughout his life, Trump has supported the hard-left pushing Democrats (Obama, Hilary, Bill, Nancy, Chuck…all are on his donation list for hefty support.) and applauded their policies. Even now, we see Trump using Sanders’ tariff plan, which is a Socialistic idea to “make life fair” with government meddling. The one tax cut will barely be felt, because the record-high government spending Trump signed into law will further increase our massive debt, devalue the dollar and hurt everyone in their wallet.

Frankly, there are no good “business reasons” to support Trump, unless you like Democrat policy and a scandal-ridden, deeply flawed human with severe management problems.

Doug Norton

Doug Norton, Industrial Designer and Licensed Building Designer (1984-present)

Répondu il y a 8w · L'auteur dispose de réponses 69 et de vues de réponses 7.9k

I am a businessman. I have had an incorporated companies for over 20 years. One of the companies was a manufacturing company. Let me tell you something about business. It is conducted on the good faith expectation that most companies will deal with each other in a manner where each company is paid for the services or goods that they provide. It is expected that the person that runs the company does so for the benefit of the company itself.

Let me tell you, Donald Trump is not only an abysmal leader but a dishonest and a amazing poor businessman. His reputation in New York was horrible. American banks won’t deal with him. He has bankrupted several companies. There is only ONE United States. The way that he is treating his allies might just bankrupt the US as well. He is running the country for short term gains and long time pain. He stiffs countries that there have existing trade treaties. He pulls out of signed agreements. He insults and degrades fellow Americans. He mocks the handicapped. He calls the truth fake news, then lies about the facts.

You seriously think that business people where hoping that Trump would be the President? What happened with HD? What happened with Carrier? What is happening with the auto manufacturers? Where are these new steel plants that Trump is claiming are being built? Come on people, wake up and look at the facts.

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