Anupriya Saraswat, I observe, I understand, I emulate
Mise à jour il y a 67w · L'auteur dispose de réponses 412 et de vues de réponses 2m
When I saw the Philly pride flag a few days ago, it was on some LGBTQIA+ page on Facebook.
My reactions upon seeing it - no lies - went like this:
‘oh wait is that an lgbtqia flag??’
‘wait what are these new colours what is this about??’
‘ooh is this for like brown people and black people is it??’
‘WAIT IS THIS ABOUT INTERSECTIONALITY AND INCLUSION OMG I LOVE THIS SO MUCH!!!’
(My inner monologue - as the kids these days would say it - has zero chill.)
But then I made the mistake of scrolling down to the comments section.
Hordes of angry messages and rants about ‘hijacking the movement’, ‘needlessly making a statement’ - and my personal favourite - ‘making everything about race’.
It bothered me a little that those who said so markedly did not look like PoC.
But hey, we’re all entitled to our opinions, right? And this is just Facebook, after all.
So I switched to Quora, and saw this question instead. Eager to share that my take on this is ‘I like it, so awesome!’, I started typing up a draft about my heartfelt gratitude about promoting racial inclusivity — before spotting the other answers, markedly different from my own.
I am fairly certain I’ll draw a lot of flak for this — but it’s not like I haven’t had worse before.
I will not harp on about what I feel about this flag, no more than I already have — but to those saying that this was never a race issue, please take a moment and let me talk about what exclusion feels like.
Not that anyone who is a part of the LGBTQIA+ community ne pas know what exclusion feels like — but as sad as it is to admit, it feels stranger when your skin has a little more melanin.
- Because exclusion feels like hoping against hope that not every queer person on the few shows and movies you can watch without wanting to gouge your eyes out is white, male, and wearing a wife beater.
(But you have no choice and you stay tuned in — closer home, anyone who doesn’t fit into the hetero-normative narrative is either a clown, a homicidal villain, or a homicidal villainous clown.
- Because exclusion feels like a friend confessing to you about being treated like he isn’t human enough when the colour of his skin is darker than his lover’s.
(He doesn’t linger long over any information like nationality, but tells you that every touch felt like an act of conquest.)
- Because exclusion feels like an acquaintance admitting to you how they’d rather not date because ‘They fetishize me. Somehow, they think it’s okay because I’m part Chinese, I guess… the things they say, man. Gross.’
(And you say nothing, because there isn’t anything to say. You’re so proud of them for owning who they are, and that has to be enough for now.)
- Because exclusion feels like watching a dark-skinned foreigner pass you by on the road, her hands twined with her paler counterpart’s, her eyes sparkling and a smile on her face. You notice - and hope that she didn’t - the hostile glances of the natives trained at only one of them.
(The ‘natives’ are your own people and you are numb to the colourism by now — but you can’t stop thinking of how utterly ironic it is that she is dressed in a ‘Black Lives Matter’ shirt, thousands of miles away from the Blue. The message stands the world over, apparently.)
- Because exclusion feels like not having the nerve to go to international platforms and seek answers for yourself, ‘Am I normal ’ on the tip of your tongue as the fact that your very existence is criminalized in your own homeland lingers in the back of your mind.
(Because it feels devalidating, to see comment after supportive comment pour in for other users - all white, you notice, but never dare to point out - when they talk about their particular brand of preferences, but each of your question gets shot down, or worse, ignored.)
- Because exclusion is being called transphobic and a terrorist despite how hard you try to be cordial and polite. Because exclusion is being told your nationality makes it abundantly clear how utterly stupid and ‘barbaric’ you must be.
(Because exclusion feels like being told to ‘shut up paki bitch lol’ when you don’t leave in time.)
Because exclusion has become, eventually, about being talked over in group after online group dominated by people who look nothing like you. Because exclusion has become, eventually, about being spoken at and not spoken to, about utter cluelessness and disrespect, about being told over and over when you do rebut with arguments about moral relativism and intolerance that ‘not everything is about race’.
I admit I have the privilege of walking away from it, of being a part of a protected majority within my own country, of not having to worry about the consequences of not winning the genetic lottery. It doesn’t negate the fact that I am still unwelcome in too many places.
Inclusivity, apparently, doesn’t include people who look like me.
I refuse to agree with the assertion that race isn't an issue, here. There can definitely be better representation, and I agree with the points Ted Schwartz makes (and the flag he's linked too — such a kickass example of a concept well-executed).
But I refuse to believe that those stripes are an unnecessary addition, that they 'miss the point', that they ruin the aesthetic appeal of a beloved symbol.
Those changes aren't permanent or universal — are two coloured stripes really such an eyesore? Is highlighting an important issue really so unpalatable?
A symbol is a symbol; it doesn't étaient to be pretty. Maybe looking past the superficiality is the point, after all.
Répondu il y a 68w · L'auteur dispose de réponses 283 et de vues de réponses 371.1k
It's really ugly for one. It's a terribly done hack job by people who have no clue what they are doing. It's so bad that it brings great shame to the designers entire extended family.
This is just too many stripes. Any competent designer knows that you can't make a flag with 8 freaking horizontal stripes. 3–4 is the usual maximum.
The pride flag got away with it because the rainbow is such a universally recognized symbol, and because there was no foreground. (Go try to make a decent flag with an image on the rainbow background, it'll look awful).
But this new abomination ruins that. The stripes are uncomfortably narrow, and the black on brown section on the top is just hideous. Competent people know that you don't do black on brown. Whoever designed this should be court martialled.
Aside from the aesthetics, it's pretty pointless. Being gay has nothing to do with your skin color and this entire intersectionality crap just drives people away from the cause. I'm pretty libertarian but even I have to admit I am starting to get fed up with rainbow haired freaks prancing around shirtless and wearing bondage gear in public. Then they have a separate parade for black fruitcakes wearing latex onesies. Then one for lesbians only. It's tolerable if they do it once a year but this incessant division is obnoxious. If it continues like this, in 10 years I'll be a straight up homophobe.
Another huge issue is that with this constant acronym/flag/pronoun/etc change every 6 months it is impossible to follow for many people. Am I supposed to call them gays? Queers? Is that allowed? Or LGBT-something? Or GLTB? The entire social justice community is terrible at branding.
In their incessant struggle to be 'fair' for everyone, and to awknowledge all, they are just dividing everyone further.
If you are the kind of person who defines yourself by your sexuality, then fine, I dislike that, but you be you. But if you define yourself, for example, as a gay person, then why is it necessary to focus on your differences with your fellow homos instead of your similarities? Isn't that the entire point of doing gay stuff in the first place? Why divide the already small gay community?
I swear pretty soon they are going to have to put a female sign on the pride flag as to not exclude women. But then they'll have to add the trans ones, however many that are floating around right now. I don't know all the ones for panfluid, genderless, trigendered, otherkin, etc but they will all have to be included.
But then what about Asians? They can be gay too. Oh wait, nobody cares about Asians. They are Schrodinger's minority. They count as white people for most things. (Ever try to get into med school with affirmative action as an Asian?) I'm glad my son is half black so he can put that on his application instead of Asian and quadruple his chances.
But yeah, once you start adding this crap to your single, defining, unifying symbol of your movement, there's no logical place to stop. If you are going to make a nod to blacks and browns on your flag, then what about Greeks or other Mediterranean people? Better put an olive stripe on there. What about people who lost their limbs? Sure that has nothing to do with gaydom, but neither does being black.
Right now the whole movement needs to get some PR guys because almost everything they do is a solid example of how to drive people away from your brand. This flag is just the latest step in a long string of horrible blunders.
Renee Morales, I am, what one would describe as..."a gay".
Répondu il y a 68w · L'auteur dispose de réponses 342 et de vues de réponses 1.5m
It's worth mentioning that the gay community has a sh*t ton of flags. I've been gay all my life but, a few years ago (wanna say 2010–2011) I saw this Tumblr post that had all these different gay flags. And here I was…living my life thinking there was the one true gay flag
The image I saw in Tumblr was similar to this.
My reaction to this discovery was “Whaaaat? Why so many flags? Why not just a rainbow?
Y’know all colors
But, whatever. Ironically as much as the community loves to claim it's not about labels…it THRIVES on labels: Top, bottom, femme, butch, lipstick, stud, dom, sub, bear, twink, goldilocks, and 50+ more that I can't think of.
So my reaction to the corporate sponsored Philly flag is the same except now there is race injected into it.
And to me…that's disappointing. Now I get that there are gay bars in Philly (and other places) that may discriminate against black people…but, this is a free country. You can find another bar or get together with like minded people and open your own. Why would you want to support a place that doesn't treat people fairly anyway? (Fuck those folks)
And after all, isn't that supposed to be the cool thing about being gay? That it doesn't matter what color your skin is, we all have this thing in common…
…this…thing we have.
So I don't know what it's supposed to solve but, it's not. The world will keep on spinning and no matter how many colors or hashtags people create or add to things — people are still gonna people.
Martin Silvertant, B.A. graphic design
Répondu il y a 68w · Voté par
Ashley Morgan, I am genderfluid and pansexual · Author has 1.4k answers and 5.2m answer views
This is what I think about the new gay pride flag:
- Aesthetically unpleasing — Some might even go as far as to say it’s appalling. I might. I can imagine there may be some resistance to this flag, as rather than people feeling more included, it may make many people feel like they identify with it less. After all, what rainbow features brown and black?
- It’s retro — I can’t help but feel this looks incredibly retro. I suppose the old flag looked quite retro as well, but with the addition of the brown and black stripes it has gotten more mechanical somehow. It brings me back to the days of the old Apple logo.
- Wrong connotations — I think the additional two colors bear the wrong connotations, and makes the meaning of the flag more ambiguous rather than that it clarifies things.
- Misses the point — The colors were supposed to symbolize a mixed LGBT community, and individually stood for: life (red), healing (orange), sunlight (yellow), nature (green), harmony/peace (blue), and spirit (purple/violet).
While I appreciate the willingness to be more inclusive by adding brown and black, this is introducing a racial dimension unnecessarily, and even at the expense of the intended message. After all, the rainbow concept is getting lost now, and the flag was already inclusive of black people; as such the creator of the new flag misses or ignores the point of the old design, and has made it a lot more convoluted. What’s next, this?
- Bad branding — Lastly, it’s a terrible flag in terms of branding. Not only is it ugly, but due to the many colors it is also harder to implement, more expensive in production, and less festive in appearance than the previous flag. It’s one of the worst flag designs I’ve come across.
Jordan Yates, I've been bisexual as long as I've been around.
Répondu il y a 68w · Voté par
Ashley Morgan, I am genderfluid and pansexual · Author has 2.4k answers and 30m answer views
My first thought when I saw this flag was, “Wow, a flag for queer people of color who died from AIDS… that’s oddly specific, but fair enough…”
The black stripe has already been on the flag in the past. It doesn’t represent people of color when put on the rainbow flag—it was used to represent those who died of AIDS. It doesn’t exactly have a positive connotation, so this attempt at rebranding it as good representation for people of color is a little uncomfortable.
Look, I get what they’re going for. Queer people of color do need better representation. We have flags representing all different groups—I have no problem with a flag for queer people of color specifically.
But I think this misses the mark. It implies that there are only two shades of racial minorities (which is ridiculous) and, to me, makes it look like people of color have been tacked onto the edge of the LGBT movement.
I know that the flag with the multicolored fist laid overtop the rainbow flag has its own problems, but I think it’s better than this one.
It shows people of color as central to the movement, which they are. And it doesn’t have bad, poorly researched choice of stripes that this one has.
It also doesn’t have the problem of being an eyesore. This flag is just ugly. They deserve way better representation than this.
Solis Arr, former Director Student Resource Center at University of California, Davis
Mise à jour il y a 55w · L'auteur dispose de réponses 136 et de vues de réponses 93k
The question may be worded incorrectly. By saying ‘the new gay pride flag’ infers that it is officially the new designation for the entire community. It may be better to inquire “What is your take on this version of a Gay Pride flag”?
That being said, it is unfortunate that some may have felt that the flag wasn’t inclusive as it was before. While I understand there are members of our community who feel underrepresented because of their color or culture, that is not reflected in the original intention and ultimate version of the flag.
The colors themselves do stand for something: Red = Life, Orange = Healing, Yellow = Sunlight, Green = Nature, Blue = Serenity, and Purple = Spirit.
These are human traits and not specific to any particular race or nationality. This is important because as the original flag stands it’s a universal representation of ‘humanity’ which is synonymous with all types of sexuality. It is flexible enough to accommodate the various letters that were added to the original Gay and Lesbian. Now that we acknowledge Bisexual, Transgender, Questioning, Allies, Intersexed, Pansexual, A-Sexual and every other description not listed here, still fit within the humanité originally represented in the colors.
For older LGBTQ members the mere proposal of a different flag is especially hurtful as this flag was our sole representation and rally point during the darkest years of our cultural history, the AIDS crisis. That flag came to encompass a human element not listed in the above colors .. HOPE.
While I recognize there is always a push within our community (and it’s a good thing) to make sure that no one is excluded… by adding race or ethnicity to these bands, leaves out an entire array of nationalities and ethnic heritages by attempting to elevate some over others. This simply is unwise and unkind, to not even speak about how insensitive to the older generation of LGBTQ who witnessed the birth of this flag and the strength of the movement during the aforementioned dark years.
My hope is that the idea that we need a “new” flag is a movement that passes. Because it serves more to divide our community than unite it. That reason alone is a good enough justification to not push for this change. During a time when we have the most divisive President in our nation’s history, would be the least opportune time to divide ourselves into ethnic and cultural segments. More than ever the original design and intent of the 6-stripe flag needs to shine through for all LGBTQ of all the heritages to hold on to.
I for one am marching in Austin Texas this coming weekend (our parade had to be rescheduled due to Hurricane Harvey). And, on the back of my red truck will be the original, and in my estimation ‘only’ flag for our movement. I respect the rights of others to think and feel differently. If I see another member of our community marching along side me with an 8-bar flag, I won’t feel compelled to rip it out of their hands. I hope you don’t try to rip this one from me.
When the majority of my friends died in the 80s, THIS was the flag which draped their coffins, and I’ll need to be laid to rest in mine before you attempt to take it from us.
Lexa Michaelides, fairly queer
Répondu il y a 68w · L'auteur dispose de réponses 2.7k et de vues de réponses 11.9m
Here’s my quick and dirty on the hierarchy of opinions here:
- If you’re not part of the queer community…shhhhh.
- If you’re queer but white and have an opinion, take an entire boulder of salt and place it on top of your opinion. Your thoughts on whether or not the PoC crowd needs specific representation on the flag is pretty irrelevant.
- If you’re a queer PoC but not from Philly, take a medium-sized rock of salt and place it on top of your opinion. The flag is for Philadelphia because of Philly’s complicated history of mistreating queer PoC. Maybe you’re satisfied with your community but clearly people there aren’t1.
- If you’re a queer PoC from Philly, no salt is needed!
A second set of general notes:
- Aesthetic reasons are a crap reason for being against this flag and no matter how much you say “I hate it because it’s laid not because I’m racist!”, you must acknowledge the derailing nature of that statement. It’s just like tone-policing. You’re taking issue with a facet of the concept that isn’t actually the important facet.
- Calling something divisive has long been the hallmark of the wrong side. It’s exactly the white feminism perspective, that a subgroup should keep quiet because their concerns are taking away from the issues of the larger (and dominant) group.
- Saying something is already inclusive is not a valid argument against people who are feeling excluded. I don’t know how that can possibly be misunderstood. Your perspective conflicts with the perspective of the people who are actually experiencing it. I’m siding with the first-hand experience here, not the bystanders or the armchair commentators.
And yeah, I’m feeling annoyed with everyone right now so I’m absolument going to call people out here.
You’ll see there is no barrier of race amongst the LGBTQ community. Only love.
The queer community is plagued by whitewashing that erases the trans women of colour who gave birth to our protests, our parades, and our rights. The presence of uniformed police officers are prioritized over the comfort of actual black people. And no that’s not “police have just as much right to be at Pride as black people” because BLM just wants police to not be in the uniform worn by officers who murder black people, not absent from Pride entirely.
The whole point of the flag is to be a metaphor of acceptance of “you, whoever you are, however you look, whomever you love — you are welcome here.”
It’s a hollow metaphor specifically because it’s not even true. These black queers are clearly ne pas welcome here, given how their needs are brushed under the carpet. I cannot believe that the frickin’ drapeau has become a bigger issue than the safety and comfort of black queers at their own damn parade.
For example, the white people will start demanding a white strip on it too! “Why didn’t you add a white strip they will say, this is reverse discrimination!”.
Maybe those white people should read a book on oppression and why reverse discrimination isn’t a thing. Discrimination and oppression are about an imbalance of power, not simply treating people differently. Like all the others, I think this is a poor reason for being against the visual inclusion of PoC in a whitewashed rainbow flag.
Since when was LGBTQ+ just for white people?
Since white cis gay people took over a movement built by trans gay people of colour and turned it into just another way to perpetuate the racism and cissexism present in all facets of our life. Our heroes get whitewashed and the police are more welcome at Pride than actual black queers.
It also doesn’t have the problem of being an eyesore. This flag is just ugly. They deserve way better representation than this.
I think us white people should probably just let the actual PoC decide on what sort of representation they want.
The colors were supposed to symbolize a mixed LGBT community, and individually stood for: life (red), healing (orange), sunlight (yellow), nature (green), harmony/peace (blue), and spirit (purple/violet).
Does anyone actually use that anymore? Really? And especially given how many variations this flag has gone through, is that vraiment a reason for not changing it again? Hell, this flag used to have pink in it and we got rid of that because there wasn’t enough pink fabric anymore. That’s the level of precedence we have for changing the flag.
Pour résumer: I’m salty and annoyed with white cis gay men being the voice of Pride (and only slightly less salty and annoyed with white cis gay women).
Here’s an excerpt from the article I linked above:
Philadelphia and its Pride campaign’s addition of two stripes to the rainbow flag comes amidst the city’s underlying problem with racial discrimination in its gay bars. As Eater reported in February, 11 gay bars and nightlife venues were recently required to take anti-racism training after complaints were made that the bars and clubs were discriminating against nonwhite patrons. One of the complaints involved iCandy Philadelphia owner Darryl DePiano, who was caught using the n-word on tape.
Other complaints involved bars and clubs denying entry to nonwhite people based on vague dress codes, and white male patrons getting preferential treatment. And according to a 2017 report from the Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations, which investigated and studied these complaints, it found that “transwomen of color are particularly vulnerable to discrimination, harassment, and physical violence.”
The LGBTQ community has frequently shown that despite being discriminated against for being gay or queer, its members are fully capable of discriminating too.
One example of this is casual discrimination within the community that’s based on race, or body type, gender, or mannerisms, specifically among gay men — the idea that anyone who doesn’t fit the image of the “ideal” gay man is somehow less than. Discrimination in gay bars based on race (and not just in Philadelphia) is another example.
Other examples include failing to recognize or address escalating violence against transgender people in America, the country’s problem with LGBTQ homeless youth (who are disproportionately likely to be nonwhite), and insufficient attention and action around the fact that HIV/AIDS disproportionately affects black American gay and bisexual men And then there’s the constant erasure of LGBTQ people of color in the community’s history, like the white-washing of the role of nonwhite individuals in the Stonewall Riots.
So all of you can just stuff it with your “We’re already inclusive!” and “There’s no racism problem in the queer community!” because that is demonstrably not true, especially in Philly where this flag was created.
Notes de bas de page
Emlyn Shen, Just a butterfly girl with a cinnamon swirl!
Mise à jour il y a 68w · L'auteur dispose de réponses 1.6k et de vues de réponses 3.3m
It’s awkward, and it misses the point.
The LGBT+ movement has major issues; of that, I won’t debate. It’s nowhere near perfect, and I would love a chance to voice my own complaints about it, so I understand the sentiment behind this change.
But the person who de